Legislature(2001 - 2002)
04/11/2002 03:43 PM House HES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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HCR 23-LEGISLATIVE COMMITTEES:SPLIT HOUSE HESS CHAIR DYSON announced the next order of business, HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 23, Proposing amendments to Uniform Rule 20 of the Alaska State Legislature; and providing for an effective date for the amendments. Number 1660 KAREN McCARTHY, Staff to Representative Con Bunde, Alaska State Legislature, presented HCR 23 on behalf of the House Special Committee on Education (HEDU), the resolution's sponsor. She explained that HCR 23 would amend the Uniform Rules to create a standing House education committee; it would reconfigure the House Health, Education and Social Services Standing Committee (HHES) to be the House health and social services committee; and the Senate committees would remain unchanged. She noted that the change would be in effect for the next legislative session. MS. McCARTHY informed members that Representative Guess had first introduced this matter as HCR 11; the House Special Committee on Education, upon review, had decided to sponsor it as HCR 23. She said it was felt that HEDU has proven beneficial to the legislative process by facilitating focused committee work on education bills and issues. She offered that education issues are complex and very important, and that the workload related to education has become significant and would benefit from the full attention of a permanent, standing committee. MS. McCARTHY noted that issues such as the High School Graduation Qualifying Exam (HSGQE), school designators, teacher shortage, and education reform in general have benefited from the full attention given them in the special committee [HEDU] without the potential scheduling challenges that HHES faces. She reported that HCR 23 is supported by the Association of Alaska School Boards and the Alaska Council of School Administrators. She expressed hope that members would move HCR 23 out of committee. She added that certainly no offense was ever intended to HHES and the good work of its members. Number 1732 CARL ROSE, Executive Director, Association of Alaska School Boards (AASB), testified in support of [HCR 23]. He explained that AASB has a long and positive history of working with HHES. The past two years, AASB has been working with HEDU and has had a successful and positive relationship as well. He said that due to the specificity of education issues, AASB believes [HCR 23] to be an [appropriate measure]. He mentioned the workload of HHES and indicated a standing education committee would allow both committees sufficient time to focus on their respective issues, which would be of great value to the state. Number 1800 CHAIR DYSON asked Ms. McCarthy about the zero fiscal note and the fact that each committee requires a committee aide. MS. McCARTHY replied that the rationale for the fiscal note was that no additional money would be necessary beyond what is currently being spent. Already there are two committee aides, one for HHES and one for HEDU; therefore, removing education from HHES would not require employing additional staff. Number 1881 REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL remarked that so many issues addressed in creating an education budget cross over into health and human services policies. He added: Many of the titles now are coming right out of ... the federal [Department of Health and] Human Services, and many of the state laws are coming right out of what we're doing in health and social services. And we find them combined there - everything from childcare to many of the mandates ... that really are going to be in the health and social service area. REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL asked Ms. McCarthy whether this subject was discussed in HEDU hearings. MS. McCARTHY responded no, not that she recalled. She suggested members of HHES [who also serve on HEDU] might remember. Number 1918 REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING referenced Ms. McCarthy's discussion of the zero fiscal note and suggested there would be costs in addition to the committee aide, such as for supplies, computer equipment, teleconference personnel, transcribers, and other costs. He asked whether those were considered, for example. MS. McCARTHY replied that those costs already exist. For instance, the recording secretary [position in House Records] already exists, although she was uncertain about the workload of the recording secretaries and whether another position would be warranted if a standing education committee were established. Number 1987 REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING said: It's not that the extra costs wouldn't be worth it; perhaps it would be, if we could have a separate committee that's focusing just on education issues, and it might very well be worth incurring some extra costs if this fiscal note wasn't correct and there would be some overhead that was not reflected there. REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING added that he thought the [legislative] processes should be more streamlined; this is being sought at the agency level. He explained that the intent of a bill several years ago that he'd sponsored was to streamline the processes of what then were the Department of Community and Economic Development and the Department of Community and Regional Affairs. He said he espouses streamlining and suggested this might be accomplished by having education remaining in HHES. MS. McCARTHY offered that the sponsors of HCR 23 feel that education is a sufficiently complex and important area of work, as is the health and social services area. Considering that all of the necessary pieces are currently in place and both areas are very important, she suggested it would be beneficial to the state to [establish education as a standing committee]. MS. McCARTHY addressed efficiency, reporting that since the beginning of the Twenty-Second Alaska State Legislature, 119 bills have been referred to HHES, 42 bills to HEDU, and 33 bills to both committees. While some [bills] may have benefited from a second perspective, she suggested members might not know whether it would have been more efficient to avoid double referrals for those 33 bills. Number 2081 REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA questioned whether the legislature had the "human power" to accomplish [having another standing committee]. She suggested that a test run has been done and asked if it has been problematic for people to work this into their schedules. MS. McCARTHY replied that it hadn't appeared to be a problem. The HEDU members have been in attendance for every meeting for which they have been in town, she reported. Number 2115 MR. ROSE pointed out that the U.S. Congress passed the 1,180- page [reauthorization] of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act (ESEA), the full impact of which remains undetermined. He said many predict that the impact of this [Act] to public education will be akin to the impact of the IDEA [Individuals with Disabilities Education Act]. He suggested the need is great to focus on educational issues with ESEA's passage and the upcoming reauthorization of IDEA. Number 2146 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON commented that she has had the privilege of serving on both committees, as have other members. She said, "I can't imagine what one chairman would have done with all this." She explained that both chairs had [a heavy workload]. She suggested that with the upcoming issues in both committees, something needs to be reorganized. She added, "I firmly agree that it should be pulled out into two committees." She explained that this doesn't reflect poorly on HHES. Simply, many issues need to be addressed. She recommended passing the resolution. Number 2196 REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS noted that he has served with Representatives Wilson and Joule on both HHES and HEDU. He offered his impression that this is a natural separation; but acknowledged his lack of an historical point of reference. He said he didn't know how HHES would expand [otherwise], and mentioned perhaps adding an hour to those meetings because of so much to address there. He added that the education committee has addressed the Foundation [Formula], the exit exam, teacher shortage issues, and student loan programs. He observed that this represents an enormous amount of the budget and the responsibility that legislators have. He expressed appreciation for his opportunity to work with the [health and social services] committee but suggested that education issues might be more than [HHES] wishes to handle. He said, "It seemed to work quite well, and I would think it would be a natural thing to have separate standing committees." Number 2243 CHAIR DYSON noted the practice of the legislature to have special committees, some of which have continued for quite a while, to handle special loads and special issues; he cited the House Special Committee on Oil and Gas and the House Special Committee on Fisheries as examples and indicated their [duration] is appropriate. The need for these committees waxes and wanes with economic and cultural conditions, he said, cautioning against taking lightly the step of [making them standing committees]. He said he'd be a strong voice in support of continuing the House Special Committee on Education, should the need continue, but was unwilling to create a standing committee based on two years' experience, when one hadn't existed in the prior forty-two years. Number 2300 CHAIR DYSON also pointed out the danger in a committee, when focused on one specific topic of special interest to members, of becoming an "advocacy group." He said one of his mentors on the Anchorage Assembly had said that as important as education is, it is one of the functions that government is required to supply and shouldn't get a disproportionate voice. He explained that this is in spite of how important he and the people of Alaska believe education to be. TAPE 02-31, SIDE B Number 2333 CHAIR DYSON observed that having too many committee referrals can slow a bill's progress, and is sometimes used as a method to do just that. He said the creation of [HEDU] was a deliberate move for a special, foreseen need; he indicated that was wisely done, and spoke in favor of the flexibility. He reiterated that he is unwilling to put this committee into law [as a standing committee] after just two years. CHAIR DYSON offered his opinion that if the House has many more committees than the Senate, a "disconnect" occurs, making it more difficult for joint hearings to take place. He suggested that a largely parallel structure in both bodies works well; the greater the departure from this structure, the more difficulty is added. Disagreeing with the premise for a zero fiscal note, he said the special committee is not a "given," whereas [the costs will be certain] if the committee is put into state law. Furthermore, he said he couldn't agree with a zero fiscal note because costs will be incurred for the committee, the aide, transcription, supplies, and other incremental costs. Number 2249 CHAIR DYSON turned attention to the overlap of education and health-and-social-services issues. He observed that early development was, rightly or wrongly, included in the department of education. He indicated that the areas of juvenile justice and family and youth services greatly impact, and are intertwined with, education. As examples, he mentioned nurses in the schools who are mandatory reporters [of abuse] and who deliver health services in the school context, as well as the Smart Start program. CHAIR DYSON suggested this has worked well this year in large part because of the excellent relationship between the two committees' chairs. Both chairs were in support [of the special committee] and agreed with the Speaker [of the House] that any bill referred to one committee could be [upon the chair's request] referred to the other committee. However, that might not always be the case. Specifying that he would vote "no" on this resolution, he said that if he is reelected and there is a need for the special committee, he will be a strong voice for continuing the [House Special Committee on Education]. Number 2145 REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA suggested that an additional consideration is the long-range fiscal plan, whether one is established or not. If no plan is created, she offered, "We're looking at maybe dismantling a lot of things." She indicated that should the [legislature] take responsibility for the state and become accountable to the public that is paying for state services, some serious commitments need to be made to address [health-and- social-services and education] issues. She noted that some bills [heard by HHES] have indicated this as well. She highlighted the importance of addressing why Alaska is rated so low in national studies regarding health. She offered that this should not be this way; to her, this indicates failure to the public. REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA observed that another issue, one just dealt with by HHES, is medical services and that the state has not measured up to what it was doing in [1984]. She said the three groups facing the most jeopardy right now are the small- business people, the nonprofits, and the self-employed. Those require time commitments in the state. She said she would vote "yes" for the resolution, but conveyed respect for the "very thought-provoking and good comments of the chair." Number 2053 REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS asked that the issue of cost be addressed again. The costs of the committee will continue whether it is a special committee or a standing committee, he offered. He pointed out that the chair had indicated his support for a continuing special committee. He said the problems are not going away; neither are the education needs. Therefore, the legislature's focus on these matters would not go away. He said a cost will be incurred for either a standing or special committee. He also said he believes the legislature will continue to need an education committee, which is why he would like to see it become permanent, thereby relieving HHES of some responsibilities so its members can be more effective. Number 1997 REPRESENTATIVE JOULE moved to report HCR 23 out of committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes. REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL objected. A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Cissna, Joule, Wilson, and Stevens voted to move HCR 23 from committee. Representatives Dyson, Kohring, and Coghill voted against it. Therefore, HCR 23 was reported from the House Health, Education and Social Services Standing Committee by a vote of 4-3.
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